8aug
Russia has launched agression against Georgia
Posted by Mart | Category: Politics | 14 Comments
This what is happening now in Georgia is not anymore military conflikt between Georgian armed forces and separatists, supported by Russia – this is full-scale Russian agression against Georgia. Russia’s 58 Army has invaded Georgia with tanks, heavy artillery and with planes. Not only Georgian units in conflict zone are bombed, but Russian aircrafts are bombing targets around Georgia. Just now I was called from Georgia, that Russian planes have bombed Poti harbour and Kodori valley, which means that Russia tries to widen conflict to Abhkazia. And all this is happening during the “Olympic peace”. And the world is silent… .
Indeed, Mart, world was silent when Misha ruined Tshinvali in the first day of operation.
It was also silent when NATO bonbed Serbia due to Kosovo…
Why should it react? What for?
BTW, you promised to reflect differences in these two cases – Kosovo and Ossetia/Abkhazia some time ago, but left it untouched. Ins’t it time?
The rapid response by Russian forces, pouring thousands of soldiers and hundreds of tanks over the border into Ossetia and landing thousands of troops by ship to Abkhazia in a couple of days proves that Moscow has pre-planned this adventure months ago. It is no coincidence that this operation is happening while the world’s attention is on the Olympics.
Given the situation in Georgia, Estonia must not cut back on defense spending!! Estonia may be small, but it can have a sting in its tail. Perhaps more shoulder fired anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles should be acquired and look at adopting the Swiss practice of allowing reservists to keep their automatic weapons and ammunition in a secure location at home.
Having seen how Russia conducted itself in Serbia in 92 I can say with first hand experience that the idea of a “Russian Peacekeeping force” is an oxymoron. The individual soldiers see such operations purely as cash making opportunities. This latest aggression from Russia in Georgia is nothing more than a political opportunity that has clearly been planed for months if not years. The modest response from the west is disappointing especially considering that S’vili’s comments that the implications for the west at large is much more serious if Russia is allow to gain an advantage from this action. What next, a few Narvans start and fight and Estonia goes to stop it only to have Russia roll in hundreds of tanks and soldiers to “keep the peace” and “Protect it’s citizens” while the Russian air force bombs Tallinn to “punish the aggressors”?
I don’t expect you to defend Russia, Mister Laar. I’m sure anything involving Russia is an emotional issue for you.
The region in the Caucasus Mountains seems to be much like the mess that is the former Yugoslavia. There are a bunch of arbitrarily-drawn boundaries and lots of mountains. A bunch of different people want to secede from the country they are in. Finally, you have groups of people who want to “settle old scores.”
I certainly respected the right of the Georgians to leave the old USSR. I also respect the right of the people of Abhkazia and South Ossetia to leave Georgia if they wish.
I certainly think Russian interference makes the situation worse. Let the people of the Caucasus Mountains fight it out among themselves.
However, I don’t think Saakashvili is an angel either. They guy has suppressed civil liberties in his thirst for power. People have accused him of rigging elections.
Here in American we have a saying that “good fences make good neighbors.” Let all the countries build their fences. Then they can all be good neighbors.
Finally, we should all examine the reasons why secessionist movements exist in the first place. If people want to leave one country in order to form their own, it can only be because the country they wish to leave is not respecting their rights as individuals.
Switzerland is a country where French, Italian, and German speakers all live in peace and harmony. It’s possible because it is one of the freest countries in Europe. Switzerland respects civil liberties like freedom of religion and speech. Taxes are low. The government does not exist to take money from one group and give it to another.
Contrast this to the socialist republic of Belgium. Taxes are sky high. Money is taken from one group to benefit another. Belgium is about ready to crack. I hope it does.
I’ve been reading that you have been consulting you for advice, Mister Laar. Tell them to respect civil liberties and economic liberties. Then, they will have peace, just like Switzerland.
I don’t know why I and the rest of the people are reading your crap. It’s obvious that you can’t be objective: you got screwed by the Russians for so many years (just like the Poles, Czechs and other Baltics) and your suspicion is blinding your common sense. So you’re just a moron spewing his deformed views of the reality to fall in sync with the Americans: Russians have used disproportionate force in Georgia (as the Americans did not in Iraq and Afghanistan?), Russians use military force and threats of military force instead of diplomacy (as the Americans did not with Iran?).
If you had a desire to get a clue and write something objective, you’d bother the read more on any subject, not only from side of the wall. But I doubt that being objective is even your goal. You’re just another politician douche bag and people should never listen to those like you.
Georgian well-timed invasion on Tskhinvali on 7th August is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sHswA0yRkw
I do not trust Mart Laar anymore.
Robert
Clearly being hear you are not taking your own advise, or maybe you came here with an intent to flame this blog regardless of Mart’s Opinion. I think you will find that in this case it was the US who fell in line with the Baltics and Poland. May I suggest you get your own blog, Im sure there will be lots of Nashi (Putin Youth – clearly your target demographic)) members wishing to use your views to feed thier anti western emotional deliquency.
Peter
It can be difficult to defend action in serbia and not in Ossetia, on the surface they are similar but no one planned to bomb serbia like russia planned and provoked the georgian conflict. The conflict in Kosovo was much more significant than than in Geogia and when a 3rd party did intervien it did so with much wider approval than Russia did.
Russia’s campaign in Georgia is not a peecekeeping one, it is a political move with mulitple motives. NATO’s action in serbia was carried out after multiple countries debated the issues. A small consideration maybe if you’re a Serb, but it was more than Russia even thought about showing Georgia. I say this as a once resident of Belgrade with several Serb friends. My bias is non existant.
ad Rober Beck: I would say that it is you who are quite blind to what Russia is doing, perhaps because you haven’t been screwed by the Russians for so many years like we have and you have only listened to left-wing intelligentsia which is so common both in USA and in Western Europe.
Trevor
Not a peacekeeping one? This is from Estonian newspaper:
Samuti sõitsid ema ja isa oma kolme lapsega Põhja-Osseetia poole. Neile tulid vastu grusiinide tankid ja blokeerisid tee. Perekond ei saanud liikuda ei edasi ega tagasi ning üks Gruusia tank lihtsalt sõitis perekonnast üle.
http://www.postimees.ee/?id=30657
In short – Ossetian family – father, mother and 3 kids – were just locked on a road in their car by Georgian forces and simply pankacked by Georgian tank.
Take a note – this is not from “russian propagada” newspaper, this is from Postimees, Estonian newspaper on Estonian language. How many samples do you need, Trevor?
Peter
An horrific act if accurate. But im guessing this was hearsay that is being reported and wasnt witnessed by the postimees reporter. The cleansing acts of the Ossetians and russians in the enclaves on ethnic Georgians is massive and widley reported, not just an individual incident.
Im not saying that during the short war there weren’t similar acts by Georgians even if this one isnt true but the issue at hand is much bigger than this.
Russians dont know the meaning of peacekeeping, their prejudice against Geogians is huge as I witnessed in Moscow between 93 and 95, their planning is obvious, their use of blantant and ludicrous propoganda is massive, especially on their own people. This aside I dont think anyone can claim peecekeeping right to a war they started, which is the case no matter how you slice it.
The Russians are there to enforce their own political agenda, its so blantant that i doubt they would even bother to call it peecekeeping if they didnt know that it would have a postive effect for their propoganda.
To be honest how can the world persecute Russia for these actions? Aggresive? Yes (though it could be argued it was provoked). The problem lies when 42% of oil and natural gas is supplied to Germany via Russian energy companies. How can you take action against your lifeline?
A dilema. . .
You guys owe Mister Laar some courtesy. I don’t agree with his take on this, but he’s a sincere friend of freedom. Sincere friends of freedom are rare and precious. They deserve my respect.
I don’t have a stake in the ongoing family feuds that have been going on for decades in the Caucasus region. What I can do is promote freedom and free market ideas. Those are ideas that would allow Ossetians, Abkhaz, and Georgians to live in peace and harmony.
Incidentally, the man most responsible for Estonia’s misery was not Russian. Stalin’s father was Ossetian. His mother was Georgian. Not surprisingly, Stalin was most brutal toward the other people of that region, mainly Chechens and Ingush.
Russia is still a dying, rotting corpse of a nation. They have more abortions than births. About 700,000 people leave Russia each year. They realize that the Russian ship is slowly sinking. They get off and find another boat. The Russian-born American Ayn Rand would say that Atlas is definitely shrugging.
What can the good people of Estonia and other nations do to protect themselves? Get guns and learn to protect yourself. This is the reason why nobody messes with the Swiss. When Stalin sent 80,000 troops into Estonia, those 80,000 would have all been dead if every Estonian had been armed. When you have a gun in your house, you don’t fear the knock on the door in the middle of the night. Every Estonian would be a Forest Brother.
Peace, liberty, and justice to you, Mister Laar.
My question is: Where were the Georgian Men
How can 20,000 men take a nation of 5 Million. There should be at least 1.5 Million men of age who can fight. If you think about it, the Georgian outnumbered their invaders 75 to 1 and even with sticks and stones, they could have repelled this attack. But the Georgians had American training and weapons? When you live in a democratic nation, the citizens have to take on more responsiblity for their country. JFK said “Ask not what your country can do for me, but what can you can do for your country”
What I see in Estonia is a deer in the headlights attitude towards such responsibility by a majority of the men. There is a correlation between the lack of company leadership and lack of men in the military. Estonia has to create a culture where men are happy to serve and risk their life for nation. They should not be allowed in jobs or university till they fulfill their basic service. The ones who do extended service or combat tours should get preferential treatment. This will create a new class of leaders who have integrity, balls and a sense of people. Estonians need to learn from Georgia, the world admires those who stand up for themselves – first. The Georgians just went crying without a fight. The Afghans fought the USSR fiercely and Charlie Wilson and many rich Americans came to their side and they beat back the USSR.
They didnt even have shoes, nor any of this American training. Mart, when you get elected, make manhood among the Estonians males part of the agenda, because now they are just a bunch of boys without a clue. The Russians will not mess with a country, even small one, who has a committed male population. Russias military is in shambles and very fragile with a Chinese spector in the background to contend with.
Don’t count on the Americans, there is no oil here, but do make these boys into men and you can stand up against russia. Estonia has around 250,000 capable men, which on the defense with local knowledge will force the russians to attack with 750,000 (which would exhaust them and leave their flanks open and be very costly. Even if Estonia would lose such a battle, Russia would lose the war as they would be exahuasted and bankrupt and left wide open for a Chinese attack on the rear flanks.
Estonia needs to get some balls and get its own ideas, be realistic about its issues, try some diplomacy with Russia first but in the mean time, get this nation full of pretty boys to be men. America owes Europe nothing, in fact Europe owes America. They beat the Germans twice and gave the marshall plan. Start taking ownership and stop whining to the west. David can beat Goliath, but then what would a nation full of athiests know (thats another topic)
Dwight, you have a fair point, guns and the willingness to use then will provide the country with a sense of safeguard. Who would attack Texas with its mulitple guns per capita?